Where,
Situation A is:
You get Psychiatry and Psychology so much because it feeds your need to understand human nature since you were 10 and it's the first path you've ever seriously considered taking. Even if you won't make much money out of it, which is the reason you're in Medicine in the first place.
Situation B is:
You take a rational stance on your spirituality, believing whatever your chosen faith decrees has a logical basis and you try to find those reasons.
Situation C is:
Analyzing those religious figures, be it a prophet, demigod or that talking pile of dog poo, in a rational and secular point of view makes you realize that they all, Muhammad and Buddha and Tinkerbell, fit into the classic profile of a hallucinating schizophrenic.
Situation C can also be:
You realizing you're quite fucked up spiritually.
29 comments:
I can understand why u said u are quite fucked up spiritually after reading your statements.but really, if u are a muslim(and you ARE btw), u can not view religion(Islam in particular) in a secular way.As a muslim myself, i have to say i am offended by your statement,and i quote "Analyzing those religious figures, be it a prophet, demigod or that talking pile of dog poo, in a rational and secular point of view makes you realize that they all, Muhammad and Buddha and Tinkerbell, fit into the classic profile of a hallucinating schizophrenic."However u want to rationalize your statement it is still wrong to put Prophet Muhammad PBUH in that manner.u didnt specify which Muhammad it is(could as well be Muhammad Fahim,my naughty next door neighbour),but still,anyone could've guessed.
I, on the other hand, am of the opinion that no one has the absolute right to tell anyone what is allowed and what is not unless it is specifically mentioned by God or His prophets. One can believe whatever to be the absolute truth and to a certain extent try to convince another to understand his views. But to claim that one's view is the absolute truth and all others' are blasphemy, I think that's just... evil.
To me, the end word belongs to God, not some random anonymous person, who needs everyone to follow his view of religion.
Unless you're God, that is. But God would have His own blogger account, I think, or at least sign His name at the end of His comment.
All religions, be it Islam or Zoroastrianism, claim that their faith/God[s] encompasses everything. A real faith system, I believe, should be able to stand up to such scrutiny from all sides, liberal, traditional and indeed, rational/secular. If you're trying to say that Islam is all-encompassing but you can't question her rationally, that sounds like an oxymoron to me. If you're saying Islam is not all-encompassing, by the view of most mainstream Ulama' alive and dead, you're a kafir.
But again, that's me.
And I do mean Muhammad, son of Abdullah and Aminah, the Seal of the Prophets.
And I do not see the disrespect in my rants. It's like me saying my cute mini is ultimately a bunch of old metal that gets me from point A to point B very slowly. It doesn't mean I love it any less or that I would stop waxing it every weekend. Well, once I get it running again.
Thanks for telling me I'm a Muslim, by the way. I didn't know that. [read: sarcasm]
Oh dear...
You miss my whole point.
You see, I am a Muslim so I LOVE my religion and I LOVE the Messenger (Muhammad) for without him i may not hold this faith so strong(inshaAllah) today.
I am no ustaz,ulama' or whatever. Just a guy. I never said everyone has to follow my view.Who am I to say that?I remain anonymous as to not evoke further conflict and to spare some embarrassment (from your and my side as well).
Im not going into Zoroastrianism, or other religions for that matter because that would make this a boring, long post!haha!
So I'll just go straight to my point.
Since you are actually a Muslim yourself(sarcasm),I think it would not be a problem to quote some verses from the Quran..
Surah Al-A'raf,v184; Do they not reflect? Their companion is not seized with madness: he is but a perspicuous warner.
Surah Al-Qalam,v1 and 2; Nun.By the Pen and by the (Record) which (men) write-You are not, by the Grace of your Lord, mad or possessed.
There are other verses in the Quran telling Muhammad is not mad or possessed.Maybe u can check it out for yourself? ;)
So my point here is, I am offended when u refer Muhammad to being a schizophrenic..as you can see from the verses above,he is clearly not. Maybe,you dont really meant to say that he is mad.maybe it's just some rational,logical,secular way of say of saying it.But like I said, there's no way of justifying your statement.Your cute mini and Prophet Muhammad is heaven&hell's different!
Peace out yooo!
And you completely missed the point of the post and in the process provoked unnecessary bright emotions by nitpicking non-existent details.
You do actually realize that I specifically used the term 'fit into the classic profile' instead of 'is a'? Some people think before they write. Sometimes I spend hours to find a phrase to perfectly convey my meaning, sometimes I'm unsuccessful but not this time.
The conflict here is in me knowing that these great figures, Muhammad amongst them, were truly sane but from a clinician's point of view, their teachings are classic expressions of delusions and hallucinations. Hearing voices, seeing fantastical views of the supernatural that no one else can see and so on describe both instances. Do you see where I stand now?
You saying that I SHOULDN'T look at religions in a certain way is exactly you trying to force your beliefs on me. I, in turn, am offended by that.
You repeat that there's no possible justification is a form of delusions of grandeur. You feel that your own form of understanding is the ultimate way of interpretation and thus because of a simple misunderstanding, you refuse to listen to the writer's opinion.
How is that in the spirit of Islam's teachings? Rather than asking for an explanation of a thing you *might*, and indeed did, misunderstand, you go the completely opposite direction. How can one who is supposed to be in 'LOVE his religion with such a strong faith' be such a prime example of everything that is wrong in 'religious' leaders?
I think that most people, me included, do not know what it is to LOVE God. We just throw the word around a lot to satisfy our insecurity and guilt for not feeling that, methinks.
Since we're quoting the Quran, Al-Baqarah 120 clearly says that some people would never be satisfied unless I follow their form of religion. Therefore, I'm taking God's advice here. I'll say to you, "The guidance of Allah is THE Guidance." Since you're not Allah, I'll disregard your guidance for now, since it goes against the Muslim ideals.
P.S. About posting anonymously, I think you made the right call here.
P.P.S. Granted Al-Baqarah 120 specifically refer to Christians and Jews but who's to say that He doesn't mean people who force their beliefs on others in general?
P.P.P.S. Al-Anfaal 22. 'Nuff said.
I've been trying to understand your stand and point of view.And it seems to me that no religion can satisfy u.What is it that u want dear? What is it that u r actually looking for? Is it the religion itself that u hate or THE PEOPLE who claim themselves to be the follower?
But whatever it is my dear let me tell u something.He loves u.I can assure u that.And as u know love in itself is nothing logical or anything sensible....yet u use yr mind and logic to find Him...no wonder u end up knocking on wrong doors.
Anyone who deals with inspiration on a regular basis knows how intense creating content can be.
The idea follows you around, and doesn't go away except when you don't want it to that once you see it, you stop everything and just grab a pen and write.
So you turn into a moody, obsessive person, frustrated that no one really understands what's going on with you.
Even I think I'm crazy sometimes.
Comment is of no relevance to post, I know.
ure fuck up jo! hahahaha. but never failed to amuse me.
"You repeat that there's no possible justification is a form of delusions of grandeur. You feel that your own form of understanding is the ultimate way of interpretation and thus because of a simple misunderstanding, you refuse to listen to the writer's opinion. "
Why does the above statement not apply to to you too?
Do you even listen or asked for my opinions?no..
Look, i totally understood the word you use 'fit into'..and i totally understood about the clinician diagnosis of classical symptoms in psychiatry..What becomes the problem here is that you stop your statement there.You should at least take the liberty to explain or to elaborate about Muhammad not a mad person.I read your blog entry several times..and if I am a buddhist with a minimum knowledge on others religion i would agree that Muhammad is a mad person.
Yes,i know the intentions of your writings,but it is confusing and misleading.
And brother,may i suggest,try not to interpret Islam by your own brain.Ustaz,Ulama' and such are there for a reason.Yes, the word of Allah is the ultimate teaching.but we are human..sometimes we misjudge things..therefore god sent us Messengers, then Imams,Ulama's,ustazs and so on. People say; to learn from only one teacher is dangerous, to learn only from books is close to learning from Satan...to learn by yourself?
What are you trying to imply on Al-Anfaal 22??from my understanding,the verse is saying for those who sees all the miracles, all the wonders in the world..they hear but listen not.so the worst of beast in the sight of God is these kind of people..I do not see how this relates..care to explain?would like to hear from your side as well ;)
If you refer back to my post, i never said i LOVE GOD.i said I love my religion and its messenger. yes, i admit it is very hard to have that 'love' towards God.but i believe it is not impossible.But, for my religion, i wouldnt trade it with anything else.
Again,im just a guy voicing out what i feel supposed to be voiced out.No hard feelings yaa! :D
Lut: Au contraire, one who thinks can find a deep meaning to what you said. Or at least just me. Maybe that's why you're one of my bromances.
Reeza: Indeed I am. That what makes me so interesting. And that's why you love me.
Anon 1+2: I am currently not so sure if you're the same person, but I'm treating you two as the one and same.
I'm gonna keep this as short as possible because you're doing a hell of a good job making a fool out of yourself.
Point 1: Love - Your interpretation. Mine says love is logical. And the second part of your argument is just semantics.
Point 2: Opinions - The comments section is for you to give your opinion. That is the whole purpose. I asked by allowing people to comment. I listened by reading yours. I think I understand your points, I just don't agree with them. You essentially told me if I don't follow your way, I'm wrong. I'm saying, there are other ways to understand reality.
Point 3: As far as I know, Ulamas and Imams are humans and they are fallible. Even the great ones. You assume that I theorize without resources. While, yes, we must learn from teachers and books, we are required, I believe, to draw our own conclusions. Blindly following what is being told is irresponsible and I view it as a sin.
Point 4: From the tafsir in my possession and from all around Google, Anfaal 22 says "For the worst of beasts are the deaf and dumb - those who understands not." I understand it as those who are obstinate by choice.
Point 5: There's a saying that goes 'AssUMe and I make an Ass out of U and Me.' In this case, you didn't assume at all. You assme. You assmed that I have no teachers in the art of faith and opened no tomes. You assmed that people of other faiths are ignorant animals that couldn't read between the lines. And, this is my Pride talking, you assmed to tell me how to write?
Point 6: I don't harbor hard feelings in theophilosophical discussions. I might use umm... flowery language but that's the writer trying to make it interesting.
Point 7: I am really bad at keeping things short.
peh. haha. may god help u la jo in finding the right answer.
You know what? I believe He did.
"You know what? I believe He did."
You see..that is EXACTLY what delusion of grandeur is..hehe ;p
I am the first anony btw, and the one who posted the longer post.
Am I doing a good job in making a fool out of myself?ok,now im slightly ashamed..heh
Lets not go astray from the whole point..What I said to be the problem from my posts here is that you said Muhammad 'fit into' a classical profile of a schizo/mad person and you just stop it there. Yes,it is TRUE in a way.But when you dont continue to explain it any further, then that becomes confusing and misleading.
I just went to a comparative seminar about religion..and I know for a fact that not everyone understands others' religion that well.sometimes people don't even understand their own religion, muslims and non-muslims alike.
So, when I gave an example; if a Buddhist with minimal knowledge about other's religion or Islam read your blog post, he/she will think that Muhammad is a mad person.. there are actually people such as this.You can not assume everyone to be as 'smart' as you.
I believe, that in every Muslims, we have this responsibility even a tiny dust one to perform da'wah to fellow muslims or to other believers. So if someone said something misleading about my religion, I feel that I have to set the record straight. It's a psychologically reflex, i guess. I have this Hindu friend who explained extensively when people thought and asked about cow being his god (which is not true)
p/s: Love is indeed not a logical thing. What logical about love is only the part where it is sensed by our body in the limbic system located in the cerebrum of our brain. But how love gets it there or in what form or why..many of the questions are still a science mystery.
It is likely that someone who claims love is logical remain unmarried or single(this part i get from a movie i watched some time ago)
:)
""You know what? I believe He did."
You see..that is EXACTLY what delusion of grandeur is..hehe ;p"
So at last, you got my point! On one hand, when you look at it, it's a type of psychiatric disorder, though, I'd say more of a hallucination rather than a delusion. On the other, millions of people every day feels like their prayers have been answered and/or God speaks to them in one way or another. The whole idea of the post is about perception.
Again, I have to refer to Anfaal. It matters not what you show to people, if they want to understand, they'd stop being deaf and dumb. Buddha once grabbed a fistful of leaves and gave it to a disciple without explaining anything, the disciple understood that Buddha was saying he's giving whatever knowledge that he has, not all knowledge that exists in the world. Muhammad and Jesus did tons of miracles in front of doubters, yet they still doubted them.
In this age of Google and Wikipedia, there's no such thing as misinformation, only laziness and obstinacy.
This is a dead horse, I think we've beaten it long enough.
P.S.: Says you. I think Love is explainable, through biochemistry, evolution theory, psychology and so on. Even the irrational love. Hell, especially the irrational love. We just are too proud or ashamed to admit it, I think.
Hi jo,this is anonymous again! =) and NO we r not the same person (eventhough i know its the most tempting choice to make and obviously the easiet one at the heat of the moment...)
Well i was the one who started with the 'love is nothing rational or anything sensible'.Do u wana know why i said that? Coz well,with my logical thinking and reasoning i didnt come to a conclusion as to why He should create u when He knows u wont believe in Him and His existance?
Yet He didnt stop there.He proceeded with His plan and created u...made u in such perfection.And here u are!(Frankly speaking if i were Him i wouldnt want someone like u...But then again that's what makes Him great isnt it?)
The problem with u is that u want to see with your own eyes,smell with your nose,hear with your ears,touch with your hands.And if your senses cant perceive all that then He doesnt exist.What and ungenerous person u r,contrary to "10 things i know about u".If that's the only thing u use in order to find Him then trust me u r never going to find Him....
Thus all that u r ever going to feel is His love but not Him.U'll never find Him
Oh God, we have another one who thinks he/she's God.
It is said in the Quran that wherever you turn, there's the face of God. So, you're saying your God can't be felt through the senses that He Himself created? That God doesn't present His face in the material world? What a limited God you have.
We're clearly talking about different Gods.
But I'm glad that your God appointed you to approve who's gonna find Him and who's not. I would ask you what's your secret but frankly, you bore me.
To a certain point i do believe thats all u have in yr heart-ANGER
Yes, dear.
why...
Mm-hmm
Oh God, we have another one who thinks he/she's God.
do u know that our souls are a part of god? its in the quran in the part of the creation of Adam. i forgot which ayat but i think it goes sumthing like this [ when God created adam He took A LITTLE BIT PART of Him and blow into his body through his nose or sumthin etc.etc.] will check it back later. so technically, we are god! hahahahahahahhaahhaha!
nah kidding.correct me if im wrong.
but its funny to see u wrote their OH GOD when u had doubt about Him.
His spirit, I believe. Saad 72.
Did I tell you about the theory that God is Energy? Can't be created, can't be destroyed and nothing can exist without both of them. Quite a compelling argument, I think.
Many branches of Sufism believe that all of creation is not a separate existence from God, meaning everything is an extension of the Divine Zat. The way to enlightenment, they believe, is to realize that there is no I, to kill the ego completely, to realize nothing exist except God.
Ahmed Hulusi, a contemporary sufi, claims that the first part of the syahadah should be translated thus: Instead of "I bear witness that there is no God but Allah", it should be, "I bear witness that there is no God, only Allah."
I think it was Rumi who told this story, or some other sufi: I was lost in the desert and found a door. I knocked the door and the voice inside asked, "Who is it?"
"It is I," I answered.
"Go away!"
I wandered some more until I realized my mistake and returned to the door. Again I knocked.
"Who is it?"
"It is You."
"Come in! There's no room for two."
Al-Hallaj's judge dreamt that the martyr was on a throne in Heaven and when he asked why it was so since the former blasphemed that he was the Truth, a voice answered, "When Firaun said I am God, he had forgotten Me and think only of himself. When Al-Hallaj said it, he had forgotten himself and think only of Me."
There are many such stories if you go into it but these two are the ones that imprinted themselves on me on this theme.
And unsurprisingly, this is a common concept in the mysticism of many other belief systems.
Oh and I don't doubt the existence of God. The nature of God, whether He is Universal or Personal, sometimes but not His very existence. My doubts are about His messengers.
U had doubt of God messengers which means u had doubt about the al quran al karim, which means u had doubt about god coz if u question the messenger than u question the quran which means u doubted the words of god.
Ironically, u use the word of a sufi as an example who is a human being like our messenger Muhammad S.A.W. if u can believe a sufi so why cant u believe our lovely messenger?
oh i want to be ignorant about sufism. i dont really accept their ideas.
again. correct me if im wrong.
I suggest u watch "the arrivals" (episode 1-51)and "the divine book".Its available on youtube.Coz for me it is quiet fair to give yourself the chance to wipe away the doubt.Everything else is up to u.
For the 'anonymous of love': i understand what ure trying to say, that we need a heart full of sincerity and determination to find out the truth.
P/S:Its ok smtms people tend to misinterpret things *pat* *pat* =)
Syareeza: Your first argument is like Bible-thumpers trying to convince people that Jesus is God by quoting the bible. It's invalid. That's the most common mistake among tablighs and preachers when they go to people of not their own faith.
Certain branches of sufism rely on philosophical reasoning in the ways of Plato, which is basically logical deduction. They do not claim to see angels or hear divine voices, unless they mean it in a metaphorical sense. Indeed, some even scoff at religious labeling and believe that the path is not as important as the Divine Goal.
There's even examples of philosophical logical deduction in Islam itself: Abraham's quest to find God. So, those who claim that you can't find God through logic are in dire need of reading the Quran more and stop repeating tired arguments that were imprinted on them by Ustazes and Imams.
People are totally capable of believing in the One Creator without organized religions. Especially in this day and age when all the organized religions are corrupted.
Very few people in organized religions practice the true teachings of their chosen faiths and that's why all of these belief systems are seen as imperfect by people not adhering to that particular system. Even Islam.
Islam's teachings are perfect, so are Buddhist teachings and Christian teachings. The followers on the other hand, the practitioners who interpret everything to suit their own needs and the mindless drones that follow them blindly because they do not want to think, to me, this is the true corruption in religions.
Anon: Uh-huh.
subhanallah.. i think Allah have indeed, absolutely bestowed you (author) with great brains, i was studying art streams and not really good in physics or biology, thus i would like to ask you a favor, may you explain to me logically how did Allah creates Hadzrat 'Isa a.s , because as far as I know, it is acquired to have sperm from male and egg from female, but Hadzrat 'Isa does not have a father and Maryam a.s is a virgin.
you sir, have earned my respect. mainly because of that two lily allen songs (my personal faves from that album, by the way).
and it's been a whole year since the last time i feel like following someone's blog. i've been poking around a bit; hope you don't mind :)
i wrote about this stupid issue earlier this year in january, centering around al-ankabut 46 of the qur'an. and i basically spent a shit load of time arguing pointlessly with a malaysian muslim on the meaning of ahl al-kitab.
keep your pen sharp, mate. be watching ya :)
that previous comment is for your konspirasi yahudi post. i have a few of your entries opened in multiple tabs so you'll have to forgive me for being confused there.
Anon: I believe in Intelligent Design through scientific means. That is how I can believe in evolution and God at the same time.
In theory, I think, a parthenogenesis with a unique mutation that causes the XX sex genes to be expressed as XY is perfectly viable. I choose to believe that in this case, that happened, barring any other natural phenomenon that I haven't heard yet.
I also believe that the existence of God is proven by a scientific law but I don't want to disclose which exact theory that is because I prefer you people to squirm. Oh and it has a bit of Russel Teapottery but what the hey. It's my opinion. Screw you if you don't agree.
And anon, I hate it when people belittle the arts. I seriously hate it. The wisest people in history with quotes with the deepest meanings, whose achievements eclipsed most others have been mostly those under the label of art stream people. Please do not put scientists on a pedestal.
Kok: Well, welcome. I hate to disappoint you but I rarely give my two cents on controversial topics mainly because I write under the influence of my muse and she's a fickle one, at that.
Anon: Oh good, I fear for you, too! I mean, presuming you're God's mouth and know in His heart of hearts His judgment of me? Telling the future of my assured location if I continue on this path? Making the Halal - Haram?
Man, those are three transgressions to my one.
Don't worry. I'll make sure that you're chained near to me in Hell. After all, I AM your brother, aren't I? We shouldn't stay apart!
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